Help Confused

Got something that bothers me I think I may have talked about this before but hell I can't remember I've posted about damn near everything. Anyway if I did I'm going to post about it again cause it right down pisses me off. I'm trying to support the gay community I've changed some on the last few years when it comes to some of the gay happenings things I didn't care about before but with the help of many of you and others I've become more open to the gay community.

I remember when I couldn't stand drag queens just to look at them made my stomach turn. But like I said over the last few years I've come to learn and to understand them and why they are important for our community. Can't say I totally understand why a guy would want to do that in the first place but I get it. Damn that sounds so crazy hope you understand what I'm trying to say with that. But there is one thing in the community that I can't stand pisses me right off and will make me jump in a persons ass quick!

That one thing is when gay men refer to themselves as girls. Let me give some examples I have a friend that says "oh I don't do that I'm a lady" or when I burp or fart he says "that wasn't very lady like" another one is he calls 'girl let me tell you this" I could on and on but you get the idea. Look I don't understand that and it right down pisses me off. I am not a girl don't want to be a girl I don't like girls well you know what I mean.

I think it's a disgrace in the gay community when boys call each other girls and I have on many times jump on someone's ass for calling me a girl. I have told them you better feel again cause I am swinging and it anit no pus or tits. Am I wrong on this am I missing something? At a meeting yesterday for my depression there a couple other gay guys there one of them was real flamboyant and he called me girl lets just say the meeting got real hot. The poor doctor had a lot on his hands yesterday.

Talk to me am I wrong help me understand this issue!
18 Responses
  1. robert Says:

    i don't think your wrong Ryan, not at all. i feel the same way


  2. DNK Says:

    NO, I totally agree with you! It pisses me off too, Ryan. I don't get it; I don't like it; and I don't have much patience for it at all. I also know how you feel about drag queens--I try to understand and I am respectful, but I don't "get it" or like it. I mean, if that's what someone is deep inside and doing that makes them complete, they can go for it, "You do you." But its not me at all and it is the biggest possible turn off for me.


  3. Mike W Says:

    Different people feel offended by different things for example addressing a stranger by their first name. It implies a familiarity.

    As to flamboyant gay men they certainly grate, albeit not to the extreme of wishing to nauseate. I think if a stranger asked me "wassup, queer?" I might struggle to control myself but childish gay guys who call every creature on the planet "gal" is but a minor irritation and I am unlikely to castrate them on the spot.

    Cheer up and talk some more with the saintly head doctor, perhaps there is an underlying reason why it offends you more than other people.


  4. Aaron Yeagle Says:

    Ryan, you have every right to feel how you feel ... no one can tell you otherwise. It's HOW you deal with it publicly and how you manage your interaction with someone who lives that affectation.

    I'm like ages old and I have seen (and done) just about everything EXCEPT wear a dress or do drag. Okay. Okay. I have a kilt ... but that doesn't really count. And my poor inner Wisconsin boy does not understand drag, drag queens or girly boys.

    However, I do believe in "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." AND I believe I must be the example of how I want others to behave.

    Here's my thought ... If I want to live my life free from discrimination, bullying, abuse and be able to get married (when I find a man who can put up with me) AND I want others to treat me with respect (aka the right wing / Christians) then I must do the same to others.

    I have to lead by example.

    I have a tattoo on my arm. It's one word, "COEXIST".

    It means to me that it is perfectly fine we don't agree on everything or even anything; it simply means we should ENJOY OUR DIFFERENCES because it is these differences which help us grow, learn, change.

    I don't have to agree with the Muslim religion but I am obligated to let a Muslim person worship how they will. Do I agree with that stupid cunt Michele Bachmann? No. But I am obligated to let her have her beliefs. I might want to change those beliefs with every tiny bit of my soul but, if I want her to respect me I have to lead by example and respect her.

    I know. I know. I chose a few strong examples. I'm just sayin'

    So ... practice tolerance if you want tolerance in your life. Practice love if you want love in your life. Practice kindness if you want kindness in your life.

    (PS I know you have a lot of that in your big-ass heart, Ryan!)


  5. naturgesetz Says:

    Since I'm in the closet irl, I don't have this problem, but I didn't like it one time when someone I was out on the web called me "girl" in a chat.

    I think respect has to be two ways, but an important part of it is you call people what they want to be called. If somebody calls you "girl," or something like that, you have a perfect right to say, "I don't like being called 'girl.' Please don't call me that again." But jumping down their throat the first time they do it is an overreaction. The second time, you give them a reminder like "I asked you not to call me that. How about showing some respect?" and then if there's a third time, that's when you jump down their throat, or wherever.


  6. ryan field Says:

    I have a friend who tells people NEVER to call him "girl."

    I know what you mean. I'm not knocking anyone. I understand that the gay community is very diverse and I support everyone. But sometimes it crawls under my skin, too.


  7. A Lewis Says:

    Who cares. It's all good. We're all offended, or uncomfortable, with a huge variety of different things. No one is the same. It's time to embrace. It's time to figure out what really, truly, matters in this world....in this life....and to focus on the good, the positive. It's far too easy to find things we don't like and focus on those.


  8. Jay Ross Says:

    Gays referring to each other as girl is not a recent thing. I remember some using "girl" back in the 60's. A lot of time it was used in jest, but a few used it all the time. It never bothered me, but I never used it.

    At one time I had a friend that was into drag. He talked me into trying it for a costume party and spent hours making me over. After he finished, he had me view myself in a full length mirror. I hated my look and promptly removed all traces. No way was I going out in public looking like a women. After all I was a man and wanted a man that wanted me for being a man.

    I don't go to drag shows, but if some one wants to go, that's their business.

    If some one wants to call me "girl", I'll tell them don't. It's not worth my getting upset though.


  9. lauradeth Says:

    I understand and you have the right to feel the way you do.

    Even when my flamboyant friend calls me 'girl' it winds me up because I have a name which was given to me for a reason and whereas you get called 'girl', I can't tell you how many times I've nearly decked someone for calling me 'dude' or 'man'.

    I think it's rude and disrespectful to someone's gender and personality.

    I know that's how some people are and I wouldn't change them but I'd wish they'd take into account how it makes others feel.


  10. Austin Says:

    Part of "empowerment" in the face of oppression or discrimination is adoption of the language used by the oppressors in a way so as to rob the oppressor of power.

    In the gay community up to and including the 70's, this meant taking all the derogatory terms and concepts and spinning them on their heads - phrases like "girl" and "fag" and whatnot.

    The gay community, until the 90's, really, has generally been "older": people weren't coming out until their 20s or later, generally. This means that, up until the end of the 90's, most of the people in the gay community grew up in or with that "Stonewall" mentality.

    What we're seeing now is a mixing of the post-Stonewall generation with the older groups, and it's causing conflict. Some of the newer members to the gay community are adopting the older "standards" and mannerisms; many aren't. Just like Ryan, many of those who aren't take offense at those "standards" because they see them for what they were (tools used to demean or discriminate, to in effect control the identity of the individual).

    I came out in 1990, at the age of 13. I was actively visiting West Hollywood at 16, sometimes with my boyfriend, in 1993-4. I predicted back then that the gay community was in for rough times, socially, because there was going to be a fracturing between the "old guard" and the new: I got chastized a lot because I "didn't respect" what the (now older) members of the community had suffered through.

    My reply then, as it is now, was this: I can appreciate what people have accomplished without idolizing them or their methods. The people at Stonewall fought for their right to be who they were; I deserve the same right, as does everyone else.

    You have the right to define yourself as you wish, and to correct those whose actions towards you are undesired. Ideally, this should be done politely, but there's no real obligation for such.


  11. The term "girl" being applied to gay men was used back in the 50s and 60s when most gays were closeted. When you wanted to explain where you were going you said 'out with the girls'. No one questioned you.
    The term evolved to be a word that was a way of saying "friend" in the gay community. Instead of calling each other fag or something like that .. Girl was adopted.
    More recently it has taken on more of a feminine reference and tends to offend some guys.. Like calling a lesbian 'Butch'


  12. mary gresham Says:

    This one is hard, as I am a female. But I will give you my thoughts. Ryan, as you know, I have been going to this little bar about 50 miles from home. They have a lot of drag shows there, so there are several drag queens that come in, even when not having a show. I have noticed that when dressed as women, they want to be called she, her or whatever. When dressed as a man, they are he and him. While I enjoy some of the shows, I still don't understand the need most, not all feel to put on enough makeup for 10 women. There are several that come to crystals who, if not for the eggerated makeup, could very easily pass for womenm they have the body and the looks.
    But to the question of you being called girl, I think they should respect you enough not to do it. As one of the others said, tell the nicely the 1st time. The 2nd time, should have a little more bite, after that, use the temper you have and go off on the, enough is enough.


  13. elise Says:

    Some good comments above....of the many gay friends I've had thru the years, some felt strongly like you, Ryan, that calling each other "girl" was not cool.

    And others like/liked it....even one I remember who was very masculine and often mistaken for straight. It was just something he found to be fun in the privacy of close friends and boyfriends.

    I think you'd be better off just taking a "live and let live" attitude. It's just one of those things you may not understand---but you know you don't like it for yourself.

    You can politely correct someone if they call you that, without getting all stressed out about it. You have to take care of your tender health, my sweet Ryan, and avoiding stress would be better for you!

    love you!


  14. Anonymous Says:

    For me this is an easy one, but some here may not agree with me. I have many flamboyant friends and they are fun to hang with with reservations on some issues. I have a very clear understanding with them. I am NOT feminine or flamboyant in any way, and they are still my friends. I do not insult them an ask for their respect back equally. I may like guys but I am not a female. When any of my friends, gay or straight call me "girl" or "mary" I respectfully ask them never to call me this and if it happens a second time , I say to them "thats twice now and I asked you not to call me that." If it happens a third time I am no longer going to associate with them PERIOD! Three strikes rule works like a charm , if they know you mean it. To me its just wrong to go around disrespecting each other in that way after having asked not to be.

    We have all fought too hard to gain mutual and equal respect with our straight counterparts, and this just irks me to no end. I would rather have a group of close friends who respect each other than alot of disrespecting friends I would not want to hang around.

    This may be the one main reason I do not go to gay pride events anymore. It's just downright silly and embarrassing in this day and age. If guys want to gather together and act that way, have at it but don't expect me to join in!!
    (BTW.... Hi Ryan !! I am glad your back!)

    Jon Winship


  15. jimm Says:

    Some ppl can be born with "a mix of male and female genetic and hormonal markers"

    www.trouble.myzen.co.uk/?page_id=70


  16. T.j. Haynes Says:

    I Totally Agree...I Dont Like When Other Gay Guys And Some Girls Call Me Girl And I Raise Hell About It..Im Glad Im A Man With A Dick Inbetween My Legs And I Wouldnt Want It Any Other Way


  17. Just Says:

    I totally don't get it and don't think I ever will! I think it goes back to the times of chivalry! BTW those times are long gone and should be left in the past. Nor do I get people who use their emotions to play with people, and get them to do what they want them to ( such as crying on whims, and demanding out of angry). I talking about people crying to get out of speeding tickets and such! This are just yet another card play in life games, that I could do without! Now however I not talking about true emotions or transgender people who actually do view themselves as the other sex ( just was born in the wrong body)! I know there is always exceptions to every rule lol ..... Agree don't call me a girl cause I am a man , and like men...


  18. Mike Russell Says:

    You shouldn't have to put up with being called "girl" if you don't want to be. But keep in mind that if it weren't for all those femmy men knocking down barriers, we more boyish gay guys could not live openly and relatively safely. So we owe them big time.